I was chain-queuing trolls last night to max out my VPs for the week. You know the drill – ZA, ZG, ZA, ZG. Some were fast and some…not so fast so I only got four completed.
I had received some great advice on improving my spell priorities from slice, and the wonderful post More DPS! from Reversion. Read it, seriously.
I figured this was as good a time as any to try out slice’s opener on bosses – Shadow Fiend/Pot, Mind Spike x 2, Mind Blast, DoTs and away we go!
I’ve been using Power Auras Classic and I like the “visuals” for tracking DoTs, Empowered Shadows, etc. but I don’t have it set up to track everything (e.g. Lightweave proc) so I need to fix that asap.
I had seen a similar opener from Volios at the Priest forums but suggesting to apply DoTs before the opener. Now, I know that Mind Spike will wipe all DoTs, but would there be enough ticks before hitting Mind Spike to make a dps difference?
If only I knew how to theorycraft…or even use Simcraft to find out…
Since I was mostly PuGing it, I didn’t want to get too complicated trying out something new, so I went with slice’s suggestion.
First thing I noticed – I don’t use Shadow Fiend enough and I have the T12 2-piece bonus that reduces the cooldown by 75 seconds.
Yeah, no excuse not to use it. I don’t know why I was “saving” it. If I use it right at the start the odds are good I can use it twice during a boss fight.
I noticed a bit of an improvement (“user” problem – more practice!) even though I didn’t have Mind Spike key bound and *gasp* had to click it, so I was a little slow on the draw (will be fixed!)
I’ll have to play around at the target dummies to find a key or key combo I can easily reach – curse you, small hands!
I also started using the MS x2 MB on trash that was going down too quickly for DoTs. I found that very situational in PuGs. If it’s a “newer” group trash might not go down too quickly and I have plenty of time for DoTs.
But if it’s a group where a couple of dps are raid geared and rocking 25k, no point applying DoTs on trash.
As much as I hated to I kept an eye on Recount for the boss fights and I hit the jackpot on Halazzi.
Now, this is my favorite boss fight. I get to stand in the green circles with full health/mana and never have to move except to another green circle – pew, pew, pew!
Yes, this was with a 15% Luck of the Draw buff and I’m guessing everything proc’d at the right time and I happened to hit the right keys in the right order.
ZA - Halazzi
So…even if we knock off the 15% Your DPS Sucks buff and whatever other class buffs were active (if I remember correctly this group had a Paladin and Boomkin, so whatever buffs they have) the good news is…yes, I can definitely improve my dps.
The bad news…I wish I knew what the heck I did.
If only I could do this all the time…
One other “dps boost” I forgot to mention…
In the middle of one boss fight in ZG, my cat decided it was a good time to jump on my keyboard. My dps went up 2k….
Cat Buff
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August 31, 2011 at 11:20 am
slice
Yay for improvements!
The Halazzi fight is perfect for shadow priest. Consttant mana regen and mo movement or target swapping.
MS x2, MB to open. Dot, mindflay. keep MB on cooldown. keep empowered shadows up boom!
As a SP, throwing SF on cooldown is a goodway to increase DPS. We have so many ways to regen mana that SF is more extra DPS then mana.
My KBs
1 – MB
2 –MF
3 – MS
4 – MF (the AoE thingee)
Alt 1 – SW:P
Alt 2 – DP
Alt 3 – vampriic touch
X -SW:D
August 31, 2011 at 12:36 pm
wolfgangcat
I have real problems using 1-5/6 and reaching the alt/cntrl keys
I moved my 1-5 (SWP, DP, MB, MF) down to q-t so I can at least use a/d for strafing, and I have fewer “misses” with the tab key.
I’m going to try moving MS and MF (AoE) up to number keys and see how that goes since they won’t be used as often as the other spells.
Wonder if I could train my cat to hit the keys I can’t reach easily…:D
How do cats always know it’s a boss fight?
August 31, 2011 at 11:36 am
repgrind
Kitteh! Mine helps me heal and strange things happen … like, Sorak doesn’t die.
That is awesome dps right there. I am very impressed!
Slice .. the AoE thingee … is that next to the skull thing?
August 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm
koalabear21
On Sorak’s keybinds it is
August 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm
koalabear21
Yay!!! Grats on uber deeps!
August 31, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Troutwort
NEEDS MOAR CAT BUFF!
August 31, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Tyler F.M. Edwards
Thrall’s balls, 31K? That’s absurdly good, even considering the 15% buff and the fact it’s a gimmick fight. My personal best is 35K (without dungeon buff), but that was from impact procs on a fire mage, which is practically cheating. Single target, I’ve never done much better than 20K.
I am duly impressed.
August 31, 2011 at 11:00 pm
wolfgangcat
Well, it’s nice to see those numbers but the trick will be trying to repeat it or something close to it minus the 15% buff.
It can be done, I just need to figure out how to do it
September 12, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Hope
I got inspired to look over your raid logs to figure out what you could improve. First, I’ll note that while there’s nothing horrifically wrong with your gear, using the old tier ilvl 359 set pieces for helm and shoulders would get you both better itemization and a set bonus worth roughly 1.5% extra DPS.
The only recent log I found was from an Occu’thar kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/3j5whw3cs7qb3dms/sum/damageDone/?s=15358&e=15532
For contrast, here’s the most recent Occu’thar log I can find from my guild: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ubmnlaxizw3f6hnj/sum/damageDone/?s=13671&e=13808
Note that our fight took 136 seconds while yours took 174 seconds. This means that if you are using your cooldowns as regularly as I am, you would have roughly 174/136 = 1.28x as many activations.
It also means that with similar haste values and similar DoT uptime, you’d have 1.28x as many DoT ticks. I only have 2% more haste than you, so after accounting for this and heroism, you should have roughly 1.23x times as many DoT ticks.
Please ignore the actual damage values listed. I have better gear and a Legendary staff which inflates my damage by 15%. The damage values are largely irrelevant. Instead, focus on how often you are pressing buttons that do damage, and which buttons you are pressing. If you press the right buttons, the damage comes naturally. That’s why we focus on DoT ticks, spell casts, and cooldown activations, not damage numbers.
The major issue I see is that your Empowered Shadow uptime could be improved. This is the buff you get from casting a Mind Blast while you have a shadow orb on you. If you look at the logs, you’ll see that you had a Shadow Orb uptime of 62% and Empowered Shadow uptime of 61%. Meanwhile, I had 45% Shadow Orb uptime and 90% Empowered Shadow uptime.
Mastery does nothing as a stat unless you have Empowered Shadows up, and having it up increases all of your damage by roughly 30% (at your gear level). I suspect you simply aren’t watching for the Empowered Shadow buff and aren’t casting Mind Blast on cooldown.
Looking at the logs, I cast 22 Mind Blasts and you cast 10. If you were casting Mind Blast on cooldown, you would have 22 * 1.28 = 28 casts. Your damage is so low because you’re not casting the highest damage nuke which in turn keeps up a 30% DPS increase buff.
Now lets compare other spells:
Mind Flay: I have 90 ticks. Your ideal is 90 * 1.23 = 111. You had 52.
Vampiric Touch: I have 68 ticks. Your ideal is 68 * 1.23 = 84. You had 57.
Devouring Plague: I have 65 ticks. Your ideal is 65 * 1.23 = 80. You had 71.
As best I can tell, you are spending about a third of your time not doing… anything. When you could be doing damage instead. For context, that means that on average, you are wasting about half of a second between each and every spell cast. Normally this is the hallmark of someone who clicks their spells, but you said you use key bindings.
Another possibility is that you are using the keyboard to turn. This is a monumental DPS loss if it is the case, probably on the order of 25%. Imagine that when you log in next, a new pair of boots arrives in the mail. It’s BoP and reads:
“Increases your DPS my 25%. Your keyboard no longer turns your character.”
Would you wear those boots? I certainly hope so!
Now if you use the keyboard for abilities and the mouse to turn, the last remaining explanation for your damage is that your key bindings aren’t very good. To play a shadow priest well, you need key bindings for each of these spells that you can instantly press without looking at your keyboard and without using any modifiers like alt or shift:
Vampiric Touch
Devouring Plague
Shadow Word: Pain
Mind Blast
Mind Flay
Shadow Fiend
Shadow Word: Death
Archangel
Mind Sear
That’s 9 keys, so obviously they can’t all fit on the number row and be easily pressed. And you can’t waste half a second for each press, or you’re throwing away 30% of your damage. If you really can’t find room for all 9, at least get the top 6 in there.
That’s the majority if your damage loss. For the rest of it, forget about power auras for things like Power Torrent. All you need is a DoT timer (I use fortexorcist) and a power aura for two buffs: Shadow Orbs and Empowered Shadows. Refresh your dots if they fall off. And pay attention to when Empowered Shadows falls off.
It’s not that you should ever delay Mind Blast while waiting for orbs. Always cast Mind Blast on cooldown. It’s just that should you ever have to refresh a DoT like Vampiric Touch while Empowered Shadows and/or Evangelism are down, you should immediately recast that DoT once both of those buffs are up. DoT damage multipliers lock in the moment the spell is refreshed, so you lose a lot of damage (up to 50%) if you lock in a lower DPS Vampiric Touch or Devouring Plague. Obviously Shadow Word: Pain doesn’t need to be locked in, since Mind Flay continuously refreshes it.
There’s a lot more about spell priorities that’s worth understanding, but those aren’t your issues. Your major issue is that you have too much downtime in fights, which I suspect is linked to your interface configuration. Good luck!
September 12, 2011 at 4:27 pm
wolfgangcat
omg! I am terrible!
Thanks for the detailed information – you are correct for the most part. I don’t keyboard turn (well, I did when I started but haven’t for about a year) but I am a little slow on the draw.
Hmmm…I thought I was keeping ES up (Power Auras shows this) but numbers don’t lie – I’m not keeping it up enough or fast enough. I’m probably missing a few Mind Blasts on cooldown, and I have been trying to (remember to) use Shadow Fiend on cooldown as well.
I do know about refreshing DoTs when ES kicks in (if it wasn’t up when applied) but obviously my reaction time is poor. I definitely have downtime when I don’t know the fights very well – sometimes I’m not sure what I should be targeting and waste damage time wondering what to do (I “default” to tank’s target.)
I have most of the spells I use frequently keybound q-VT, w-DP, e-SWPain, r-MF, t-MB (used to be bound to 1-5 keys but I had problems reaching the number keys.) I do have a few spells I click – SWDeath for one (ugh I hate to admit that – keybind incoming!) I suspect my UI is probably my biggest downfall.
I’m stuck at gear at the moment – I’m just an infrequent “backup raid dps” (as if any respectable raid would give me a raid spot – yeah, I wish Paragon would stop calling
) so tokens are pretty much out of the question. What I can do is replace my T12 pants or gloves with the T11 for the 2-piece bonus, but I thought it wouldn’t help me much.
I’m also rather confused about reforging so some of that might not be optimal – I understand reforging haste, hit until capped, then I’m not sure what to do – mastery/crit about the same?
All this is very sound advice – I appreciate the time you took to write it out! If you were on my server I’d give you every last copper I had for a few “How to Shadow Priest” lessons!
September 12, 2011 at 4:30 pm
koalabear21
Bocat are you using Ask Mr Robot?
You don’t have to take everything suggested as “OMG YOU MUST ONLY DO THIS!” but it should help you a bit with your reforging.
Here I will link your character for you – http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/winterhoof/bocat#v1-z1
You’re actually pretty optimal for your reforging.
September 12, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Hope
When you want to improve as a raider, there’s a lot of things you can do, and if you try to do all of them, it can get really confusing. Focus on the things that will give you the biggest return for the effort put in. In your case, that’s optimizing your casting.
Don’t worry about reforging or gear. Gear matters so much less than people think. If you had best in slot epics, you would only gain on the order of 15% DPS. You can gain 50% extra damage in your current gear just by pushing buttons faster. As far as reforging goes, the difference between a perfect reforging and not reforging at all is less than 2% extra damage. Do not worry about gear. Gear isn’t what’s holding you back.
I had an alt shadow priest in a similarly progressed guild during Ice Crown. I had mostly badge gear and was still sporting blues, but typically topped damage by 30%. If I can beat Ice Crown in blues, you can beat Firelands in your 359 gear! Start with the belief that you already have all the tools available to succeed in your raids.
I suspect that gear isn’t the reason you’re a raid bench warmer. It’s probably just that you’re putting out less damage. If you start doing above average damage, they’ll get you in full time. Make that your objective.
Regarding what target to damage, when you are first learning I would recommend doing a single target DPS rotation if there are 3 or fewer targets in play and switch to Mind Sear when there are 4 or more. When you get better at juggling DoTs on multiple targets, the ideal thing is to keep full DoTs on 2 or 3 targets if they are up, and with 4 targets, keep Vampiric Touch on everything and then Mind Sear. But that takes an awful lot of concentration and it’s easier just to Mind Sear large packs and do a single target rotation on small ones.
Anyway, I suggest you think about a UI that gives you easy key presses for all 9 core abilities, then practice on a target dummy. Keep working at it until you key bindings that are naturally. Remember, you aren’t measuring DPS. You’re measuring spell casts / DoT ticks per minute, and your objective is to maximize them. Spell casts per minute should be roughly comparable even to someone with significantly better gear than you. You’ll find that your DPS increases of course, but focus on spell casts.
As far as a good objective, I think you could hit 25k raid DPS with your current gear.
September 12, 2011 at 10:46 pm
wolfgangcat
I’ve been using Mr. Robot – heard good things and bad things about it, but at the very least it gets me close to hit cap. Not sure how optimal the other stats are though.
25k?? That’s without the “Your DPS Sucks Buff”, right?
Eeek…I’m worse than I thought!
Okay – I have some work to do with UI, I’ll try the DoT timer and fix up Power Auras. I set myself up a WoW Logs account, so I’ll start using that (although I’m not sure what to do with the numbers yet.)
I also read about a latency fix addon at the shadowpriest.com site that I can try to see if it helps get my spells out faster.
Not likely I’ll be able to “raid test” but aside from target dummies I can try out some things in ZA/ZG. Once the “Find Raid” comes out I’ll have plenty of opportunities to torture some PuGs
I really have to laugh at myself because for someone who has the time to play (yeah, I have no life – I could raid 4 hours/night every weekday and more on weekends if I was any good) I really should be cranking out some decent numbers – better get busy!
September 13, 2011 at 9:03 am
Hope
With your current gear and near optimal play in a raid setting with full raid buffs (including Dark Intent) on a simple single target fight (eg. Shannox), you will do 25k damage. I actually verified this by looking at logs from when my guild had similar gear back in Blackwing Descent, and everyone in the raid dealt between 21k and 27k damage with a mix of 359 and 372 gear. And yes, this means no “Luck of the Draw”, though the 15% from that isn’t too much higher than the DPS increase from a full set of raid buffs.
Don’t feel bad about being worse than you thought. The secret is that nearly everyone is bad, and significantly worse than they thought. I mean, most people in your guild have better gear than you, so they should be doing at least 25k DPS too, right? The good news is that you don’t need to be perfect to kill bosses. Just do the best you can to personally improve and it will help your guild as a whole.
You should have a weekly opportunity to do Occu’thar at least. Try to top damage meters there.